This is Hacker Public Radio Episode 3,824 for Thursday the 30th of March, 2023.
Today's show is entitled, 2022, 2023 new years show Episode 4.
It is part of the series HPR New Year's show.
It is hosted by HP or volunteers and is about 120 minutes long.
It carries an explicit flag.
The summary is 2022, 2023 new years show where people come together and chat.
Oh, on that minor you were talking about being on disability.
I don't know how old you are but when you get retirement age they usually drop the disability
and just put you on regular social security and you don't have to worry about what
your earnings are anymore.
Well, that's somewhat comforting but I have some problems with dehydration which may indicate
that I've damaged my kidneys for years of tonic or something and I don't know if I
have any interest to have the kind of employment that I used to have.
Well, I know when I was on disability I was always scared if I did any work that I'd
make too much and they'd take my disability away and all I'm saying is that it's a pretty
low bar.
There's a pretty low level of income you can make before they take your disability away
but that goes away when you get retirement age.
Well, actually I'm looking to get to the magic age where I can defer my taxes and
say it was two or three grand a year.
I am working one or two days a week as a substitute teacher and at the high school level
that's usually a babysitting job.
Most of the regular teachers don't want you to actually be doing teaching to their kids
which is really strange but it's like 86 bucks a day on Mondays and Fridays, 76 on the
other days of the week if I recall high school a lot of teachers were the babysitting
as well.
Well, it could be but you do get some connection for some of the students and you just
have to have the patience to deal with the others and these days you don't even have
I don't have a degree.
I should have got a degree.
I earned a degree a few times over but not at an institution but they are so hurting for
teachers they'll take anybody.
If I had a teaching degree it would be like $120 a day.
This is the amount of people rely on degrees is really irritating because they're very rarely
actually useful.
Actually, I was a C student until I hit junior high and then I became an A student and
anything that I applied myself to because in junior high and high school I could load my
head with a test full of data put it on the exam and move on to the next subject reload
put it on the exam and move on.
Well, that's exactly why I did not graduate from college because I can't do that and I have
a philosophical objection to doing that.
I figure if I'm going there to learn something I should learn something not just stuff
figures in my head for one test.
Well, when I got to if I had done a junior college I would have probably gotten a degree
because they would have continued the same project or if I'd go on into teaching college
I could have gotten a degree because they continued the same way but when I hit a real
somewhat rigorous academic environment that kind of grip and read did not, did not function
very well.
Also I was under tremendous emotional stress at home.
Yeah.
I tried going back to college a number of times and it always boils down to before some
masters over there's emotional stress going on and the stress at school is not helping
that any.
Well, also when I was going to college I was getting my dad's degree because he quit
northeastern 14 or 16 credits before getting his degree and he believed that the
age that I had gotten in high school was the same as the age that he got in the 40s
for a much more child high school and they weren't the age I was getting had a lot of
damn error.
In fact a few years ago they tested teaching students who had been certified.
They gave them a comprehensive, cold exam, fairly roughly 50%, so they were taught the
same way that I was taught and they were taught to optimize their learning to the framework
of testing, now Massachusetts has what they call the MCAS exam which is the only thing
standing between you and a diploma.
If you can pass the MCAS you get to the diploma, you don't, you could be an honor student
but you don't get no diploma.
Also when people start passing the MCAS they widen it scope because they must have a certain
number of people failing the MCAS so that they know that they know can teach more
broadly.
So people with a graduating this year may flunk next year because they will move the goal
post.
I don't know all the goal post moving I've been seeing has been going the other direction.
They can't get kids to pass things so they make it easier.
Well when I was at a Linux group that some of the junior college people said they can
say this is going to be on the exam and people will still not read them.
But then again I heard that foreign companies have raised their requirements to junior
college when they would normally just get a high school diploma for some kind of employment
because the high school diplomas are not worth much.
Well a lot of junior college degrees aren't worth much either but I still don't have one.
Well the interesting thing is that while they're going for standardized testing they're
going to standardize testing which was invented by educators and Massachusetts that doesn't
line up with anybody else's standardized testing and what everybody is avoiding is something
that was designed to provide a level playing field for high school education which
is the GED exam.
If everybody passed the GED they would know whether you were taught in California or
New York or Boston you knew the same stuff but by keeping everybody's exam to state standards
any problem is going to be swept under the rug.
Well yes well our exam is different you know you can't measure those statistics against
passing statistics against us also a friend of mine was working at what they
used domestically called the alternate high school program where kids who are not doing well
in school are put into an alternate high school and given the most boring teaching possible
not non-motivating you see if they've one got of the alternate high school they don't affect
the numbers of the regular eyes.
New University and Monday my undergrad we actually had something for students who are not doing
great at school like secondary school they could come to the university and spend a couple of weeks
doing a course with us which we called this sort of widening participation and if they pass
that course with a sort of special training they get an offer for a place to come to the university
because basically UK education system is pretty bad it's not a very good one and one of the
things that we really fall down on is if your child is not good at free specific subjects which
is English mathematics and science that means they're stupid and they can never go anywhere in life
of course this is ludicrous absolutely worthless way of determining how good people are
afraid so this was a way of basically getting people to prove their skills in other areas
and you know because when you get to university at least in the UK you start specializing so
if you already you know weren't particularly good at secondary school mathematics but you were
pretty good at stuff like theatre or you know television production or something else you could
just come into university and start doing the thing you already kind of good at or computer science
because you know we don't we don't teach computer science in school in the UK or at least we
didn't when I was a kid and there would be a lot of people I'm sure who weren't very good at the
course subjects but excelled at that so yeah I just wish that we didn't have this reliance on
you have to be good at these three things what if those are the three things are not good at well
I guess you're stupid then you can go to the thick line and you get to work doing you know you get
to be a try and be a sort of you know my cleaner for the rest of the life sort of thing
it's just this very class it's not too difficult education it's endemic in the UK it's awful
right well I I looked at some free universities are distance learning universities to work on
get an degree and the best of the best appeared to be as a time universities South Africa but
it was completely based on the British education system and we don't have that here and so I
had no idea whether you're working in you're very lucky um the British education system
this I mean the same British education system isn't particularly fast got London Wales
and Northern Ireland have different education systems the English education system in particular
is exceedingly poll um and that's because the government's the whole way every year
the whole way that they arrange their education is completely foreign to the way we have it in
the US which I'm not saying is a better system I'm just saying it's a foreign system to what
I would need to get into USA universities South Africa yeah yeah exactly it's it's uh and that's
the problem is like you know because England was such a big sort of you know colonial force a lot of
countries now I have been infected with our terrible terrible university system we're actually
the best country in the world for education is Finland we should all be using their system if we
want a copy one but no if we don't do that we use the terrible education system that we've been
we're basically infected the world with nobody's gonna be scared of you they're so sharp
yeah that's why the education system's so good right because they fund it properly
no they yeah but no they've they've been proven time and time again them and Singapore
weirdly and Hong Kong have the best education systems in the world I know and Hong Kong is this
holding up well probably not when I went to study there and in 2014's and this was just before
the umbrella revolution and things were already starting to creep then so I'd imagine it's not
great now yeah it's hard times well I'm saying cool what's the reason for this year or no finish
or Swedish depends on where you go you can learn Swedish instead so a half of a half of a
Finland is native Swedish speaking you don't have to learn Finnish but my sister is a fluent
Finnish speaker she she studied uh phina-ubert linguistics at the University of Oxford so she she
basically you know she's very very good at Finnish and she's tried to teach me and I just
look at her like that's not a real language you're making that up maybe that's why they're so
good at education they've had to master nonsense so you're saying your friend went to finishing
school oh my sister yes she she yeah she finally finished with a PhD which he now does nothing
with since and this is one this one saying about like education I mean I've got two degrees
I've got a bachelor's in the masters I haven't used either of them they weren't important to
me getting jobs they've no been used and I'm just sort of like you know that was a very expensive
way to sit around studying Japanese textbooks for four years yeah I think I could have done that
on my own time I've seen to have a weird learning disability where I can learn some of just about
anything and in each of those categories that I'd be learning in there seems to be a ceiling like
just can't get past and like I know tons about computers and operating systems and whatnot
but I can't program my way out of the paper bag I know nothing about IT and I'm all that I know
about computers is not sufficient to get me a job in computer but I'm doing three podcasts on Linux so
I mean it's weird because so I left university in 2016 and I have a postgraduate degree it's the
most useless postgraduate you can have a thing called it's cool it's in Japanese mythology
so it's in basically comparative Japanese mythology and it's used in children's media so it's
completely worthless and basically because we left the European Union in 2016 I was like well I need
to get a job but we'll get me back into the EU so I can get out of the UK and that's why I decided
to go into computing and I basically had very little knowledge of computing I'd use Linux a bit
I'd use Windows all my life but really had no actual knowledge of it and I got hired in a
college doing like hardware repairs just for you know putting to compute spat together with
then stuff like that and just kind of you know took took the interest I had in it to learn
more about it and start writing guides and stuff like that for other people and I found that
process was really helpful like the writing down what I discovered and then after about a year I
was a systems admin and then I moved into the private sector because you know public sector there
was no money um that I mean it just goes to show the private sector has no idea what it's doing
because like I went into this company and they just I don't think I've ever come across a group of
people less competent in my life and I went into this company as a second-line support Asian
and database admin and then became a software developer very very briefly and I left and discussed
and now I'm a technical writer so you know I've taken like I said that initial thing I like
doing which was computers are fun let's write down what I figure out about them and now that's just
the job I do and I say that really for that sort of thing depending on the level of which you do it
you don't necessarily need to have any knowledge of things like programming what you need is
tenacity you know you need to be willing to and this is what you're saying you do these you do a
lot of playing around with computers you do a lot of podcasting on them you've got the tenacity
to sit down with a computer and not let it beat you um when it doesn't work like it should
and if you do that plus write it down that's basically technical writing it's pretty much the same
second well now they won't hire me because of my age so yeah I just had a birthday earlier this
month that gave me a seven in front of my numbers right put a fool me I mean the the body's definitely
breaking down but I I don't feel seven me and I don't seem to act seven me more like 13 but
yeah I mean I hope that that situation changes in the future because from the looks of things
now there's no way I'm going to be able to retire before I'm in my 80s because they keep bumping
the retirement age up so I won't qualify for any retirement pay because the economy is so broken
at least if I stay in the UK Germany seems to be fine well I was not able to get a job and hold
it so retiring doesn't matter because it just means I'm not earning any money there's yeah
when you when the longest you'd held a job in a long employment history was two and a quarter
years you're not getting any pensions so the your pensions not follow you from job to job so
like oh no first off I really ever qualified for when I don't don't believe I ever did qualify
for a pension you have to have like five years on a job for you actually the pension fund
wow that sounds incredibly broken it is but I am also incredibly broken so
I mean so the way it was here is like at least in the UK it's like everybody has a state pension
so that's just even if you're even if you're not working like you're paying in state pension
socials are really here and then yeah it's the same sort of thing but then like when you get a job
usually each job will have a private pension scheme but they also pay well in the US most of the
pension funds have been spent by the companies so yeah whether you're supposed to have a pension
or not the company can just file bankruptcy and you don't have a pension and there is no
federal backup to that actually I don't have done that they file bankruptcy come out of bankruptcy
and say oh we don't have any pension liability anymore yep that's uh back in my account why isn't
that just like something that's held in escrow like separately from the company because this is the
US we don't do things that way what why are our pension retirement programs the only tax that you
stop paying if you make enough money the people who are not contributing to our pension
program yeah good point no I don't know I taxation is silly in Germany we've got this weird thing
where it's like we have a we have a sort of socialised health care but it's it's technically
it's all private health care technically there's no whatever but there are three companies and
you have to pay private insurance to them which is basically just single-payer health care at that
point and they're all the same they all do exactly the same things there's no real reason to choose
between them but the the point is that like in you basically if you are earning up to 60,000 euros a
year you have to pay into that sort of what's called sort of these sort of social
health care but when you're past 60,000 you can choose to stop doing that and just pay private
if you want to and I'm just there like but the public health insurance is so good why would you
bother paying more for private you know and why do we let why do we give them the opportunity to
stop running into it very it's very weird and very sort of backwards it just seems like nobody's
thinking about these things but that's you know that's definitely well also I'm on food stamps
when I get a cost of living in Greece they delete that from my food stamps unless I can prove that my
expenses have gone up really now what about a cost of living in Greece don't they understand that
the reason they're giving me a little more money is because my because they believe the expenses have
gone up yeah you would have thought that things like food stamps and that sort of thing would be
paid to the cost of living so if there's a certain percentage right yes I'm not living the people
getting food stamps and disability probably do not own a house or a new car and the cost of living
indexes are based on the economy which is heavily weighted toward royalty right but you do have a
separate index for things such as food right like no we have a cost of living index period okay
I yeah okay I don't know enough about this subject to comment because I don't know you know
it's stupid I don't even know anything that the rich people can do to get out of paying taxes they do
you mean like spending forty four billion dollars on a website and then crashing into the ground yeah well
it's not a tax auction I don't know he just became the first person to lose two hundred billion
dollars of well yeah congratulations to him I mean what do we close out the year I suppose
all I'm saying they they say they used to say that cocaine means you have too much money
well these days anything with a be on it and your income means you have too much money yeah
these people are going well what am I going to do now why don't I start a space program instead
of what am I going to do now why don't I start paying my employees who made this wealth for me
I'm sorry I'm something but socialist but I just think that the people who make the money
or the people who should be paid the money and the guy at the top is not making anything he may be
an effective placeholder that allows you to make things and that has a value but that doesn't
mean he should be siphoning it all off and keeping it I'm you know I live in a socialist country
of a socialist government literally for the first time a long time and unfortunately at least in
Western Europe the socialist moniker is literally just that it's a moniker at the end of the day
they're all still just rampaging capitalists and they do exactly the same thing you need to go
to Scandinavia for anything approaching sensible sort of actual socialism and even then it's
really only Norway because they're looking at their oil rich and they can afford to do that it's
a mess Germany just has yeah we have a socialist party hello and then they're like well
what are you going to do about all this oh well you know nothing but we are going to legalize
weed that's what you wanted right kind of but like if we have some systemic change it's talking
to us about how terrible the CDU were and how it's going to be so much better under this coalition
and then it's like so how's it getting better well now you'll be too high to notice
well cool here in the US we don't even have the legalized weed legal because it has to
be legal on the federal level for the weed pervellers to even be able to use a bank to keep
your money in and it's not thanks or over rights it I've got mattress well yeah that if you're
making millions of dollars a day selling weed you don't want to use a mattress it's a very big
mattress ah it'll get KL won't be pretty soon that's fine I can afford my spine straight now
now one thing I have been looking looking forward to actually though under the sort of
the shifting government in Germany is they are there's a concerted effort in both Germany
and France at the moment to push towards using Linux pretty much everywhere a big ruling came
out of France reason which was they're banning the use of Microsoft 365 and Google Drive in
educational establishments so in schools and universities aren't allowed to use it anymore they
have to use a you know open source solution such as next cloud or their own hosted solution
it should be very interesting to watch well my wife is informed me she is ready to go eat so
I will be logging out for now I hope to be back later okay see you have her her our best
really you sir we're I have an out trouble giving her my best well best wishes thank you all I will be back
you know the most useful job I ever had was when I those months that I spent helping people with
Windows 2000 as a volunteer I was on disability but they were at least getting the society
was actually getting some service for their money yeah and people needed a lot of help with
the Windows 2000 well we had one guy who was writing something and he would write a page and
have it printed and then he'd write another page and have it printed and he used used word
like a typewriter but that worked for him and that's what we were there for.
Now I think he so was Windows 2000s the first sort of major addition that had the NT kernel
because I didn't remember any was the one that had still had MSDOS in it and they tried to
patch a lot of Windows 2000 features on top of it and it was just incredibly unstable well
or is it the other way around actually yeah I know NT did but I think 2000 also had NT kernel
yes 2000 did because you could think of it as XP like also right the problem people had with
millennium edition was that if you tried to upgrade instead of doing a new conveyor you had a mix
of Windows 2000 DLL's you know libraries I mean you had a mix of millennium edition libraries
and Windows 98 libraries and sometimes they didn't work very well together it was more reliable
to do a new conveyor but but doing an upgrade of an already crafty architecture and just didn't
work very well and also Windows 95 had a crash vector built in because of the they had a counter
that they used for for their timing 18 ticks per second or something and Windows 95 when
that counter I think 32 bits rolled over your system went into Lala land nice now if sounds like an
excellent if you started your system and used it as a business desktop that is to say you started
the morning shut it down in the evening it would never reach the magic number but if you left
it running you know once a month or thereabouts it would it would have a headache but I am interested
in seeing what I can do with a modern machine and freed us on box 86 have you tried what's
it called ReactOS I haven't tried ReactOS but then again I'm if I were going in that way I would go
wide so yeah sure I'm just interested in it like again it's just a curiosity thing I remember
meeting the developers it at fuzz them once and you do sort of think you know but we have wine
and now we have proton which makes wine even even more you know sort of powerful but the whole
idea of just having like a completely you know Windows compatible operating system that isn't
Windows is just fascinating to me like it's not even really using Windows system calls it's using
its own it just happens to be compatible with its API which is just I don't know if I find it
fascinating as an idea but I've never actually liked sat down and put it on a virtual machine and tried
it out the question is really that they're they're trying for a moving target because the
Windows APIs keep everything to be honest I think they just need to hit full compatibility with
Windows 7 and there will be a lot of people who will want to use it there's a lot of people
if I can Windows 7 was the ultimate and everything that came after was a mistake well yeah it's
kind of hard to tell whether Windows 7 or XP was the people although 7 was nice I'm just saying
that I worked XP a lot of the problems with XP were artificial yeah you could tell that XP was a
really good operating system because of you know how long it stuck around after it became so
called obsolete well this I think for me XP represented the last time that Microsoft
kind of finished an operating system or you know that anyone did really it was like after that we
got into the whole mode of delivering updates and an OTA and that just meant that everything could
get shipped in a half in a half-page state and it was like when it doesn't matter because it's
going to be fixed over the air and that that's a terrible user experience for as XP I mean okay
there were problems with XP and then we had but by service packed too XP was solid as a rock
like nothing was really going to take it down well the thing about XP is that most most limitations
were artificial because it it had multi-core support but it was limited to two cores actually well
there were limitations as well especially when you started looking at 64-bit systems because
yes XP 64 existed but there was a lot less development for it yeah that was really
this an a major problem was you know that if they had kept investing in sort of the underlying
architecture of XP and stop worrying about this whole thing if we've got a ship another one you
know that would have been fine and then you know XP was around for forever and then like seven
well okay vista was only around for what two years before seven and then seven just a couple of
years before eight and then eight point one came out and it was almost completely different from eight
and then yeah 10 and no 11 yes and it's just not three hundred a little bit long
well we had 10 and we were assured this will be the last version of windows we're just going to do
OTA update it's going to be a rolling release and then the announcement does 11
we just said they were like we we never said it was going to be the last one
yeah and then they scrub all the marketing materials off the web oh and it's funny that they started
putting such a major hardware restrictions for 11 oh yeah yeah oh like my old game in the
hop and fast yeah they're not hard and faster rules you you can get around those rules but
they're saying that like my old gaming laptop you know just isn't going to work with windows 11
is what they're trying to say but I don't care yeah and the way they sort of they
may be sort of phrase it in their sort of support thing is your hardware is obsolete and it's
like when you mean is that a particular TPM version isn't supported by my CPU and that is it
that's in most cases that would be only problem it doesn't have a high enough TPM version
to support well okay fine this is a home laptop I'm not I'm not keeping government secrets on here
right right I don't need the the latest newest fastest freaking laptop ever would I like it yes
sure but I'm not going to freaking go out and spend my money on it just because you think I should
have it you're going to pay for that Microsoft you're going to buy me a new laptop no I don't know
I guess I'm using Linux yeah actually actually Linux actually one of the one more of my
heart when I got this little one liter I I five 65 100 T is on Amazon it said is not eligible
for Windows 11 upgrade yeah a lot of them are I said what that means to me is this generation
which I would like to get by the case is going to be which even comes with an I seven if I really
wanted or whatever is is going to be artificially devalued by not having the Microsoft upgrade
path or at least the Microsoft direct upgrade paths because most people won't want to mess with
it double go go to the next generation that is Windows 11 compatible well I think this isn't
the first time we've gone through something like this I think it was like four or five years ago
with an update for Windows 10 that came out that basically bricks all the devices that you know
Microsoft still had contracts with that were that had 32 gig hard drives and and 64 gig hard drives
and they were still being you know licensed and sold at the time that had happened
but you couldn't get any updates because the updates were too large with the space that was already
being taken up by the operating system itself so yeah whole bunch of devices that could no longer
be updated and actually that was about the time that Leo bought his HP stream and I think that
was the reason that it ended up with Linux on it was because you couldn't get the Windows updates
I'm I have a machine here that that's basically what happened it came with like a 128
of SSD and and the update required a quarter quarter terabyte right you know now it's running Linux
with a couple of after about SSDs but that's you know those smaller devices like I was talking
about they they're hard drives were shot at on so it's not like you could just go in and replace
the SSD and have everything be fine they were stuck well not only that you are if you go back to
the networks the Microsoft limited the network architectures to something like two gig memory and
whatever our drives because they wouldn't certify them for for XP or whatever they were running
if the manufacturer actually up the memory spec or or made them so that they could actually
compete with real laptops or desktop. Yeah okay I kind of hate Microsoft what they did to the
network market like yeah I think networks are a great idea you know they're fantastic little
machines but because of Microsoft's market dominance and they need to put Windows on everything again
we got these devices preinstalled with an operating system it was fundamentally too heavy
to run on the hardware and so everyone just went wow networks suck they're a terrible idea
and it wasn't then until Google came along with the Chromebooks that everyone was like wow
this is a great idea it's like we could have this if we'd have just used an operating system
that didn't suck but you did have some networks that came too market with Linux on it but nobody
really understood Linux all that well in the consumer space at the time and they'd get the devices
and they'd want Windows on it. Yeah and and also like it depends which you know Linux distribution
you put on to it as to whether it's actually going to offer some sort of performance improvement
over Windows you know the the I mean at the time I think they used a lot of them used
Ubuntu running Unity that's not going to help it's like you know it's like you know Ubuntu
on there maybe but put like KDE on it or XSE or you know something like that something lightweight
XSE might be quite nice for you know all Alex LXDE would be quite nice for Windows use this time
family for LXDE yeah Alex he would be great you know but
if it's called back then there there were many
netbook remixes yeah yeah it just feels like such a wasted opportunity because like what we ended up with
was yes it was Linux on a chrono on a netbook because Chrome OS is just Gem2 with a different
skin but because it just runs a web browser and it has all these familiar services and
people don't understand that know that and see that and that was kind of the you know but
your run is a real opportunity. You're still running usually really good processors on them
and you can make uh Linux applications run or you can simply you know run Linux on a lot of them
but that's that's the weirdest thing because like I had I had I've had two Chromebooks in my life
I had the Samsung Chromebook like the original Samsung Chromebook and then I got I won an HP 11
Chromebook in a competition from Google and these were what I were considered to be sort of netbooks
they had cellarom processors or I think the I think the the HP one might have even been
armed processor I don't remember but they had very very you know rubbishy processors and low
memory and all that stuff and they ran fine for just doing basic web browsing my dad used his
for years and until it basically went out of support but the problem is now I look at them and it's like
okay they're all same to them. I was right I had to come back well I didn't have that
purpose I was like oh they're coming back now not they're not in now I've gone back and back
on now I'm and I was saying one that book right now basically it's from a UK based
company called Star Labs based in Surrey it's the Starlight the one it's on the
Carrot and Cell because the other one it's 11-inch screen yet the hardware is okay and I even got
a core boot on this one actually by choice I chose a core boot all the AMB BIOS I went
the core boot obviously but yes that book basically and it works fine enough with the
looks yeah I do it's better yeah yeah well that this is what I'm saying but like the the
this is not one of the markets how it's so much because of Windows does the point I was
making about the Chromebook is that now the Chromebook's like like Joe was saying
and the same stats as modern laptops and they cost the same yeah they cost the same
that you're buying a gimpter. I was thinking oh yeah what Microsoft did as well
were the so-called Netbook or the low end we've ever moved it all for books as well high
end you know computers but the so-called Netbook is they released some of the miles above
we've got one for example the laptop was okay but I had Windows but the problem was the space
was 32 gigabytes yeah SSD which is not big enough for Windows not really I think we're in
Microsoft picked up on that themselves after a while like oh works we kind of release Windows
10 all these netbooks that have hardly any space can we give them a sort of cut down
version of the Windows that by dad people were put already thinking hey these laptops are
rubbish I have no space no excuse and then obviously Google Chrome came out Google Chromebook
and then we met so then it's basically really but the public doesn't know of that
come on Linux apps on there with the emulate situation on what we should have done that on
at Chromebook that was interesting but Chromebook yeah well Google dominate the market with
Android as well or people like Google yeah I just feel like you know the
disregards to the space thing like Microsoft tried to to kind of promote they tried to use
that actually to promote um like with the HP stream to promote one drive as I know you can't
store anything on the machine because it's too small so you should put everything in one drive
and people would just they're like yeah but I also don't know install programs but we still
don't get the files even when you're you're wiping out everything on our hard drives as it is
because that was one thing that happened when Windows was trying to force these two large updates
was they delete all your stuff in order to fit on their stuff and it still wasn't enough space
well they do that thing where they download an update especially for like Windows 10 when a new
version came out every six months or so they would download the update and they would
download the full thing and it would be like you know 5 to 10 gigabytes in size and it'd be like
why if I run out of storage space oh you're looking at me like oh because they've downloaded the
tire oh yeah the research lab in the Arctic yeah no that's the story where people complaining about
that is um we get charged by the megabyte or whatever and then you know yeah Windows just said
to hell with you guys here's 10 gig yeah there's this research group in the Arctic who were on
of you know very very slow satellite connection where their bandwidth was polling and they found
out they paid their entire research operation have been knocked off offline by well what people
probably well we know they're surely but you know Windows let's see you'll need what about
70 gig it might possibly just put your operating system itself and compare that to dinner
you can get by would say you know 16 gigabytes you can even have some space or some data in your
home folder with that probably but with Windows you just give it a good you know 70 gigabytes
maybe just be sure yeah the the most amazing thing there is that Windows updates and I think they
have improved since the since then and um but there there was this whole thing about not doing
def-based updates and this was a problem that also happens in in macOS like macOS I believe
doesn't do def-based updates when you update things on Linux or free bsd or whatever it's like yeah
we just patch in the difference between the two versions but uh no not with macOS and Windows
well yeah well yeah a little sister upgrade is basically the same old package of every single time
here we go we got a new version we're going to replace your bugs and occasionally get some brand new
fact package sometimes but it should the same old same old and and that's how it is
oh what uh do you remember that macrosoft also was not only using your bandwidth for updating your
machine they would have been useful thought map with the hydrogen one as well no for Windows 10
at a computer at a feature where it would use part of your bandwidth to update others in your area
running to that yeah they have this mesh update system and you can you can opt into it or opt
out of it but it's it's phrased in such a way a bit like a bit maybe a bit like a torrent part
but not really but look like a torrent you've got the power it's kind of like that it's kind of like
that although probably nowhere near as uh well optimized but um yeah it was this kind of mesh network
but the way they word it because I think it's I think I do believe it's turned off by default
I don't think they turned it on by default but what they do is they pop up the same saying
we've got new and improved you know ways of doing Windows updates and this will make everything faster
so of course most people would go yes of course I want Windows update to be faster it's unbearable
and they enable it and then like you know they say just it wipes out their connectivity because
you know it's not necessarily a bad feature I'm not saying it's about feature but it's one
of those things where you have to understand the context of somebody's internet connection and you
know what their sort of bandwidth content is that situation is like and most people especially
Windows users I'm afraid to say well know that stuff well yeah they trust the default
and the things that I recommend it as well the fools the the phones the fools I'm saying
well well that although although something that Microsoft did which was probably a good thing
in a way really right is auto is also Windows update because a lot of people won't install
updates at all the other ways yeah um I still I do think that they again they made auto updates
annoying and that's kind of a problem because they you know again they they they have the
marked dominance for for the desktop computing and laptop computing and they may auto updates
work in such a way where it was really irritating people to the point where my sister disabled
auto updates and didn't update her computer for three years because the auto updates were so annoying
well yeah that's that's basically it as well do you have you they they Windows is for the
masses and there are people that just they just don't care about there weren't when did well
there's no people you're basically thinking I've got nothing to hide I've got nothing to hide
so what have to do next to watch out please the the main thing is that whenever Microsoft does
something they have to remember that they are or were certain the face of that new thing they
weren't necessarily the first ones to do auto updates but being the market dominant force they
had a responsibility to do it correctly and to make it to make people understand that it was a good
and convenient thing and they failed it's the exact same thing with you know they're talking
about the netbooks there was an opportunity for netbooks to actually be a really good opportunity
a really good choice for a lot of users who really were just using laptops for the web and Microsoft
being the market leader and the one with the deals you know with all of the hardware companies
they had a responsibility to do it right and they failed because you know they wanted everyone
to have the full Windows and I'm sure that that was not an engineering decision I'm sure
that that was a Steve Volna decision and so basically now you have a generation of people who
think that web books you know netbooks are terrible they think that auto update to annoying
and that's how Microsoft defines it was all well with what we also got a generation of people who
well some of them will be like Kaggle man okay when there is a bit rubbish but I got money up
right up by my parents or my phone or maybe a Mac for somebody even yeah but but some will go to
Chrome but a lot of people just use the phone now the laptops and the desktop so you know
unless they have to be used for game some specific more typically than it's proud I mean I do as well
about my browser web on my phone I do that a lot yeah and I think that again the Chrome book
for me had a specific appeal which is I find phones extremely difficult to use I can't type fast
on the phone my girlfriend type 30 messages to me before I can write a single one back
I like to keep it as well and I put a message there and then at times it goes wrong and it's
kind of fast as well and I'm going to table it it's still coming out with long messages so
you're the way people can help to read me on that at times so a Chrome book if it were priced
correctly would actually be a fine solution for me because you know it has a keyboard it can
actually work and then the problem yeah they should be like 120 to 150 pounds for what they're
offering as a value it's we are you know the fact that they are about the price of low end laptops
just feels ridiculous to me and all think pad on eBay for 63. Well that's true and not
and also they were talking about the new Chromebooks okay they're going to be supported for eight years
apparently over I was reading but it's like eight years but I think what and at the end of eight
years the price will probably still work actually but your friends just don't want so and yes
to ask them if your old terms of operators just need to stick on to a Chromebook but obviously
this is the average person is not going to do that so you end then that with advice it's
a sense of cool and then what's going to happen really and I guess I'm going to use the
Google might change the mind again okay he will support a bit longer but we'll you know yeah I mean
this machine I'm talking to you on now is is what 13 years old and it still gets updates because
it just runs Linux and Linux ain't going to abandon me anytime soon yeah so I took with my
mum's laptop kept that going and it will have five year it will so more years after XP
about support except Chrome and no problem with Linux and the hardware and the nice thing yeah but
the nice thing is because this is a thinkpad it's the hardware is infinitely replaceable
and easy to repair so as long as people are still selling spare batteries and things are
bad and the CPU doesn't die because unfortunately it's one of the models with the soldered CPU
especially you could just keep going oh that's your other problem with that laptop
to have more specific hardware and I've learned this now with a hard way because I bought a
due to those computers laptop but I wanted a UK Linux space seller of laptops and then my
charger broke and a lockdown because it fell on the charger as accurate right charging socket and
it turns out that it isn't just as simple as that just getting you charging
laptop it will sound a little bit as well as a sound issue as well except for it and
because that was only a thing when you made or something yeah and that's that's the real
problem and this why I'm so interested in these kit computers they're making these days and
you know the ones that are just extremely basic in terms of their hardware requirements they use
one really just a bunch of open source hardware which what what was that kit you think
I can't remember what it's called I'm saying kit computer like a kit car because I can't
remember the name of the brand you mean like a modular laptop yeah it's a modular modular laptop
home 64 no that's something else but I mean the earth gives stuff as well
home 64 all the stuff that's like the latest tech tips the one that you go down about the
framework laptop is the one I'm thinking of and those are interesting devices because you know
that whole point about repairability and the ability to like 3D print parts for it and stuff
I bet that's really the future of repairability looks it also with phones the same problem most
home especially now we mean yeah yeah that's that even take the battery out one of you can but
you know it's right putting out a modular phone on the market a couple of years ago and it just
didn't work out really well they're set so you can place parts and yet things fixed for example they think
your phone phone time stuff is trying to do that as well they might be in the future and the
live room and then Google had their uh are you but they never actually released it just announced again
this is another area where I'm really upset that and that's an apple apple and now allowing
people to repair their max so there's my friend who is a game out and it's not place and that's
all that yeah there were laws that I believe it was in the EU that came out that uh yeah kind of forced
some repairability standards across the board and everybody else in in the world has benefited from it
but uh yes all the time there's another way to lock things down also you can be a lightning
hit micro USB wherever you know that normal charging cable is new one and lightning cable for apple
the EU would have been pushing that I think it's coming starting next year you're not allowed to
sell apple I'm not allowed to sell devices in the EU we're the lightning cable in what have you
is PC and you face on a Brexit but it will probably come over here like that as well hopefully
well no it'll be across the board that they've already started switching the USB-C and um yeah
I think that's a really good thing I mean I know the EU tried to do that with micro as well and that
worked for a while getting almost everybody to have their connector be micro USB step for apple and
now apple is actually putting in the the USB-C's that's the thing like the EU's point is that like
you know the EU will say basically you have to use it for this block and apple well if once they've
lost that core case they basically will just go well it's not it's not a cost efficient for us to
keep making lightning and they'll stop their feet and say we can't innovate if you do that
the fact of the matter is they don't necessarily innovate with the lightning adapter and also they
if they are forced to work on an open standard instead that benefits everyone yeah thank you
open standard everything is you know after they make the switch to the USB-C they'll be like
we were the first and the greatest to switch to USB-C like when they removed the 3.5mm jack
and that was supposed to be so innovative but well when they put in a touchscreen you know something
without a knock you had the market and then apple did something something something something something
exactly yeah but we'll apple let's 3.5mm jack you put a decision yeah they call it innovative
no they like to make stupid decisions and call it brave which is what they do with a 3.5mm jack
and then reverse those decisions and call it innovative well the 3.5mm jack if you look at the
I was just going to say they made some really stupid decisions with the with the MacBook line
and the new MacBooks that are coming out are undoing a lot of those stupid decisions
but so you know we're having we're going to get more ports and stuff like that
and so you know support for a bunch of them they drop
yeah we're going to put any buttons on it make it back
that's what I'm going to like but now with like the 3.5mm jack the first company that I remember
removing the 3.5mm jack was HTC with the HTC Dash and HTC Dash 2 and you had to use
think it was USB mini adapters to be able to hook up 3.5mm gross yeah they were still cool
phone I mean I have I have sat next to me an iPhone 13 Pro Max and my biggest gripe
with it is really that I can't just plug a pair of headphones into it the HTC Dash was actually a
Windows mobile phone okay a concession time I love Windows mobile I did in particular Windows 7
Windows 10 and mobile I love it oh no I before 7 I really liked Windows Mobile
well yeah that was okay right well yeah I've heard that before people who even went to the next
by the way yes saying that actually Windows Mobile was quite good but Windows Mobile was well
and the reason that failed I believe is because of the app for them and they didn't even know
to have the money and whatever so Windows Mobile actually did really well for the longest time
and then when they when they did the transition to not really 7 7 was a start of it
a Windows Mobile 7 but when they when they did the switch to Windows Mobile 8 and tried to integrate
it into Windows 8 and then they took away all the entire back catalog of applications that you know
developers and people had made that you could install on your own on your Windows Mobile device
and made those completely obsolete and tried to lock everything down to just what they provided
in their stores that's what really killed Windows Mobile plus Windows Mobile was a lot bigger in the
PDA market than it was in the mobile phone market and everything was transitioning to mobile phone
the other big killer of course for Windows phone was that Microsoft had a spat with Google and Google
pulled access to their API so that meant no YouTube, no Gmail, no nothing on Windows phone for a
long time and by the time Google relinquished this and allow them access again it was too late
Windows phone was dead. The market show wasn't there and despite having the best cameras on
the market which they really did like the Lumia series were extraordinary phones and in my opinion
these single best set of typography and user interfaces sort of schemes. Yeah the app problem was one of
them but I think more to the point we had this starvation of access to resources and then also
the fact that Microsoft was behind it people at that point just didn't trust them anymore
this was after Windows 8 so why would they? Well I'm talking before
when you said that was after Windows 8 well you know that was better but you know when those
8 change a lot of things and people had to get used to it and they were gonna but then improve
when those times stuff as well really it was the interface that the change a lot of things that
people could see. I sort of compared the Windows 7 to Windows 8 transition to the transition from
Node 2 to Node 3. The biggest problem was that the developers broke work froze and the last thing
you do as a software developer is break someone's existing workflow. And you actually what they did
and even even even going forward now I didn't like forepoint for it but then I got used to that
sometimes you feel like why do you put a panel, why don't you move your phone down and get
what happened? Why did that matter? I think he's specifically talking about the Metro UI
Windows 8. Yes, right it was a good idea but they shouldn't have tried to force it down
everybody's throat day one with Windows 8. This wasn't a good idea. Specifically
well there's a little bit of history of the Metro UI I mean for one thing I would love for Windows
to have any sort of consistent UI across the operating system that would be lovely because I love
it when I open up a file browser and I still see Windows 95 icons. That's hilarious.
Right, more often the main thing in any of their like right-click menus and it just turns out
to be an XP menu. Yeah exactly it's still loads of stuff left over but with Windows they could
have they could have eased people into it if they'd have avoided putting it in one place and that
was the startment. The last thing that you mess with on Windows is the start menu. It's the one thing
everybody you know that has something to stand. Yeah I guess that's true but I think the
start menu is it not only is universal to all versions of Windows. It's the one one of the few things
that infected virtually all desktop. Yeah but if you like it or not, your page needs
looks like Windows by default. Yes you can customize your phone. Yes they kind of have
some features in from KG but no sorry looks like Windows to me and there's the
little bit of like Windows 7 when that came out in Australia and the mall and the good thing
like this is Windows 7. It was KG for all that. Well basically like all of your desktop
that aren't known kind of look like Windows. They're following yeah because they're following
the traditional quote unquote desktop paradigm whereas and that's the thing with with
Nome 2. Nome 2 followed this as well and then Nome 3 what they did in theory is a great idea.
They went back and they said does this make sense for contemporary computing and they
basically came back and said no. Oh I'm sorry I agree but you can't change up
what everybody's been using there. But it's not just that but when they went from
Nome 2 to Nome 3 at least when they went to Nome 2 to Nome 3 or even to Unity is they
I used to be able to configure the hell out of Nome 2 and then Nome 3 came along and then they
changed it so I can't change anything. Even the main interface, going free, going free,
going free and see 4.3 as well and obviously there's files but what I found the
word is that I never liked files and going free or 4.3 because if I didn't put the old thing on
then say food puna or maybe that's the extra seed one actually or what's the amount of
metal multi one and you lose all the ones and that's fine and good. You might file through
my list soon to details but the way they've done files I just don't like it but that's just
one that'll happen so you know many way and it's the next seed because there's about another
five file manager to choose for many ways for them to be able to. The thing that I take from Nome and
I like Nome like I'm a Nome fan the thing I like about it and the thing that I think is ultimately
beneficial to Linux adoption in general is they offer a default and you know you're saying
it's a shame I can't configure it more that's that point they've kind of got to be
well gonna right so Nome 43 and you know onwards have offered a lot of you know improvements
to initial onboarding of new users they offer a really easy to understand and yeah sort of
what I would call a same default and because they can't change it much users end up not breaking it
it's very easy to support it it's good for both a sort of a personal use thing and also business
use gets that out on how do you use Linux even has very slight links for example when you
hover over with activity it'll do it's a fact when you go to the menu on the right yeah they
they've improved that menu actually more seriously more recently we'll shut down and buy
lesson all that stuff but it's a slight link here and you've got kind of dots slash
map if probably maybe we wouldn't be inspired by Apple here because it used to be down the left
icons out so the bottom called the ping the icon but save it and the window manager of you in
the thing this is very good it's it's it's it's like I say it's a good default it it allows
it makes it much easier to support and it means that people moving from one system to another
nowhere everything is the next time they go to that system if you want a more configurable interface
they exist KDE is configurable to Helen back you know if you want something like
that you can configure just through config files something like i3 it's all there if you want it but
then needed to be a stock interface for Linux if you wanted Linux to be something that was widely used
so in your opinion if there are other places out there who are actually using
number three as they're as they're default like i don't know i would always i would usually think that somebody would use
so they would use something like an xfc or marté or cinnamon
the point is that like if you install Ubuntu on a on a you know if you buy licenses so you're
going to buy if you're in america it's most likely to be you're going to get red hat if you're in the
UK you're going to like get you yeah one two or sousa same in Europe and all of those three
by default come with no all the way i don't say this yes i do that whole thing about you have
unity with was on top of no match the underneath really and actually i did like unity 7 and i did
also let you to eight what we can well give up on you to eight but i'm just too wrote on the
bunch with a preview to see how it changes six bumps i also let you be taught the project
that's different the carrying on with a bunch new foam stuff and tablets amazing what they do
but unity there to do some usability test i believe early on would real users as well in
sort of 2011 like will this work with normal people and some of them i think lack during that actually
but my point being well even if if somebody gets a contract for for but any one of those
things it's usually just on the server side and like i hear this from everybody that most
developers develop on back but most the servers running this stuff as usually on usually like
a Linux server so let there yeah how many people actually using how many people in an office
are actually using Linux as their desktop environment you know not just on the server side
so is that is that is that I understand that they are going to be having is that an actual
argument that people have those like is is is there a use case for there being a consistent
type of desktop that people can't care i think i think what happens is that i've had some
universities let shabble to pull boot and library windows or a bunch of example but i think
the business unfortunately i think most of them are using windows still yes the need on the desktop
yes there may be some more windows in the background but it's just sadly how it isn't that
well i mean specifically is it is a good example it used to be that um google all of their
desktop's were Ubuntu like that was just how they always worked i think that's starting to change
now i think they've had a falling out with canonical or something but they certainly always used to use
their desktop for all Ubuntu and in that case yes it is very useful if everybody has the same
interface because then like i say as somebody who used to work in IT support it was very helpful if
i knew that everyone was looking at the same thing if somebody else is i don't know they're saying
i've got some graphical problem here and i'm like okay so what have you done and it turns out
they're actually using kde what my brain needs to switch over to a completely different context
because they could have just touched a file or you know entered entered panel edit mode without no
yeah i was at least we've known they're kind of locked down also also i think with a Chrome
but Chrome arrest surely that's a bit locked down as well yes it's a it's a it's a big reason
that a lot of educational establishments are moving over to google Chrome it's very easy to manage
remotely and basically it's very easy to troubleshoot because i want to see in the same thing
and if you can't troubleshoot it you power watch it and everything's in the clouds and nobody cares
very well i'm saying it's right wrong and different i'm just saying
i understand what you're saying about being able to having one universal
desktop environment or platform to be using and it's a lot easier to troubleshoot i'm just saying
is that i've never heard that about google but do you think that there are other companies that are
adopting it that way? Sure and more than just companies there are also governments adopting it so
in Germany and it's Hamburg their entire public infrastructure runs on desktop
yeah yeah yeah so i'm going to limit the thing you don't need to do this yeah i'm going to
constantly argument again so let's say universal interface and then we can go on talk
about office suits and things too and it's like should everybody be using word that
sell powerpoint because you know and then also we have been here with there's a choice from
all you know and i think i'll actually be learning more than one office suit in the school that
it doesn't matter what the what they should be doing is they need to teach how to use the
the tools not to teach the application if i can find it if you learn some basic some very
basic uh spreadsheet you know just general spreadsheet knowledge you can then take that knowledge
and use it across multiple different types of spreadsheet applications it doesn't matter
what you put me in front of well yeah all the spreadsheets you run in the same general
okay i have to same with you use interfaces for desktop if you know how to use
cano m and kd and you can act to see cinema and then the windows desktop and you can probably
get on with an apple desktop too and probably most of them with a graphical user interface
and get through it on the same way i think if norm norm 3 is still a bit more as is is
a lot different than sitting down to a kd e or a marte or a cinema or even a windows is is
somewhere still along the lines you have to start far in the corner you can find the wheel
start menu and i haven't touched a macOS and so long and the last time i did i was
still very confused as to what the heck i was doing so i feel looking for a start menu then yeah
you're not going to really find the angle i'm free to be honest however when you click around
you realise that you don't need a start menu because of how it generally works
this is right this is the set of you with with when i when i look at it from the perspective
of i'm going to take it from the perspective of let's say you've got someone who is never
used any computer in their life i'm not talking about someone who's been using windows or whatever
as a child i'm saying let's take it from the perspective of a hypothetical who's never used
a computer in their life give them a simple task to do tell them to open up a text editor and
write something send them to the initial landing screen of any one of these major interfaces
not the login screen let's say they get past that and we've got a problem because in windows
it used to be that there was a start menu that was easy in windows xp all the way up to vista
when it became just a small circle it was very easy to say there's start there and then you
had a search bar okay we can kind of understand that i'm going to type in text editor and hope
something comes up in windows onwards it's still kind of draws your eye to the bottom left or in
the case of windows eleven it kind of draws your eye to the four squares but it's less well telegraphed
macOS no idea absolutely lost don't know i've got two blue faces looking at each other on
the bottom bar and i don't know what it does there's nothing that looks like a text editor there's
a compass which i'm guessing is a map oh no wait it's a web browser that's what i'm using
kd has the same problem as as windows in that it doesn't really draw your eye anywhere in particular
what nom does especially from nom 42 onwards i believe is it starts you with a search bar
immediately in front of you and a list of icons of all of your programs it's therefore very easy
to go if the text editor is right there you can see it's a pencil and paper it's very clearly defined
you go oh there it is and you type something or you search in text editor and you'll get it but
firefox and things on that by default yeah but even then in most a lot of no-based systems
come with no web so even if you don't understand firefox because again but iconography means nothing
but if you know what you're looking for is called a web browser you can at least type in web browser
and either nom web or pop up which is perfectly suitable or firefox will pop up because you know
the the desktop file includes that description and you're okay to go whereas yeah apple i mean
i i use an apple machine for works i'm very used to it but i will say that its iconography is
appalling and it gives you no clues as to where anything is in the system you're much better off
being someone who knows how early unit system works and just jumping to the command line straight away
because otherwise you're the design is just atrocious now i would use the nominal long time
but how how was you into the new system is it hard corners no by default as soon as you
now from and i think it was known 41 that introduced this um basically the moment you log in
the screen your your desktop is sort of minimising is it in the top top of the screen in the middle
sort of one of the list of virtual desktop and underneath you got a search bar and a list of your
applications so the first thing that you're going to do is type something in maybe just terminal
or whatever it may be but it takes you straight to a search so it bypasses that whole where do
why go how do i get something now what button do i press it just bypasses the whole thing
so you want to know if we have all the icons in front of you as soon as you log in
not every single icon there's still a main overview of every single program you got just all
screen there out well but the main this one's icons should be there it'll like a dock on a
max system you know you just down they've a movie speed up down the left so that thing going
free but they changed it to the bottom screen at first I was a bit like where you done that
it's like a Mac but we're going through this mother change it actually make it quite decent
when you compare it to the home free what the pre you know what was just there and they're taking
the good things over from going free anyway like put the lot of it so it's just very good
safe now yeah the what you start off with is your favorite list and that will have a few
stock defaults in there that is chosen by the distro manager but it will usually be things like
a web browser a text editor the essentials and then you can have a search menu which search is all
apps so you know if you're looking for something specific you can you just start searching
and it goes straight where you don't have to worry about clicking around into menus here so
at the bottom of the favorite list there is an icon that says all apps and that takes you to
the full screen with every single application and it's all you might have felt desktop that
that's improved as well I mean only for some people do that I suppose and round teeth but yes it's
improved so you know most when they most desktop so as soon as you log in or you get as a blank
screen wouldn't nom three the logs in it's automatically in doing the menu page no you know
why don't you see that the dog brings us to the background or well we'll pay for you put
down and there's the the docs that icon we're talking about and that's about it then you start
clicking around and it's very straightforward yeah and I would act here with you
and we lock and the shut down while there's no that the rock top right as well like going free
yeah with with known 40 41 and onwards so they drop this whole thing where in
known three you would log in and it would literally just be your background and nothing else so
they they in in known three at some point they got rid of the side doc until you went into
activities overview and basically you would be met with a blank screen which actually is not a great
thing the only thing about that was you drew your eye to the the the the word activities
up in the top left of your screen and as soon as you put your mouse up there you'd hit a hot corner
in your activities overview a pop up which was kind of jarring now when you start you're not
focused on the screen itself like the desktop background that is something you can see but it's not
selected what instead shown is the activities overview so your screen is split in half the top
half shows in the center of your desktop and the bottom half shows your favorite actor your
favorite at least and the search bar that's what you start with and it's automatically selected
the search bar yeah also a little side point but I'll see in window a lot of people would
say documents on their desktop and you get all the clutter best of the icons of the word
documents and all sorts of things but chrome had decided to sort of I think it's flashing there's
removed that option a while ago but we might have enabled it we enabled it but but generally speaking
he not supposed to put icons of files on desktop and chrome that's just not what you do and they
made and you don't need to it because of how it works yeah and I'm with you my it's very I use
enlightenment for the most part and mine is just basically a almost like just the wallpaper in
that's almost there's a little bar across the top that has whatever is running in a little stuff
where like a top right's got the clock Wi-Fi and maybe a battery and maybe the volume but that's
about it and it's it might try to keep my desktop as clean as possible if I want to if I want
to fumble around with with with files and stuff I go into the file manager so you first screen
thought in the mumble fat of chrome for you to look at the full point about look at that yeah
so that that's what you land on as soon as you log in so I think it's as it's slightly different
but like it Ubuntu has and I don't like how canonical do you keep doing this because they
they don't stick with this they try to make it like unity like and so they've overridden
some of these default behaviours and it just makes it worse like you know canonical just can't
keep their hands to themselves when it comes to this sort of nomin type that was just
almost KDA yeah yeah kind of put up the corner for a move or change something there was a
picture and that I can know map I believe for like it was a bit like a wind that you've got
skills issues and your hardware or something one of those kind of programs and I believe
kind of cool decided that that's not have to similarly by default because this is going to
confuse our users but obviously for door or something still has it you hear about that one as well
yeah yeah canonical makes a lot of questionable decisions they just they just don't I don't know
what their decision making process is but it scares me so I'm listening I have to try and
on again oh yeah it's improved now how is it see I I usually like to play around with more of
the lightweight desktop environments how is it does it feel like a heavy desktop environment
um so I gave enlightenment I gave enlightenment because last year again I figured I was
need 21 and I was feeling it all started to all tried to and I thought well that's a bit
bad from I remember E17 so because you said you want enlightenment now enlightenment that's
obviously it's own beast as you know I'm sure but going full point free it feels like
well you know a bit more than desktop as well like in this time this sort of 20 you know this
20 10 to well give me 20 20 for you now you know unless well if you go and blow that up my
tail or something again that's the old boom 24 I mean that's showing it seems like it's from
like what sort of two facts but explain me modern desktop um I see if this other guy agrees with
me if I can explain it some it just it just looks more than a decent like in a times when like
this is year 2022 so that's 2023 it's been around for the last 10 years or so anyway
whereas if you start the way if you suddenly want to know that my tail I mean I like my tail still
to go to fork but not just that it's going to be does look old and old school like it's from the
year 2000 or something which it basically was and the same with XFC I mean that's even older
and enlightenment is like for me the only thing the only thing that makes it
a desktop environment modern is does it support everything that somebody who is used to using
contemporary solutions such as smartphones Mac you know MacBooks and all that does it support all
of those phones out of the box? Well yeah in a way yes it does but I say in a way because I know
that they have been able they've been working on bringing them boom for 24 or 4.3 to a phone as well
so a new panel yeah yeah you can but on a phone what I'm saying is that one saying is that the
design of something such as enlightenment marté whatever I think to to call one set of designs modern
one set designs not is is is a slight misnomer for me the thing that matters is out of the box
if I open up known and this is more because of the the libraries that underpin no I know that
without doing anything to set it up Bluetooth will work Wi-Fi will work sound will work
wail and will work that all will just work that's to me is a modern desktop environment
you can make an argument about what makes a modern you know well the positive or model
don't do that phone tunnel something to produce the improved pulse audio so change it that's well now
everything something the other month but yeah generally type of virus
I'm making everything my better yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so to answer the original
question in terms of weight uh known is definitely heavier than KDE but it's not as much as you'd
think so back in when known three originally came out it was a memory hog it was really bad
at running on light machines but I've run known 43 on this call 2 duo think pad and it runs fine
it has not as quick as what I'm currently running which is DWM but that's because DWM
is a single file that you have to change to I would like to hear about DWM
I'm going to say everyone's going to play on mini PCs and stuff so we're not with the best hardware
but then that worked right yeah what do you want to know about DWM so I've been running things
before like I study UM and other lightweight very lightweight desktop environments but what is
what is DWM so DWM is another sort of tile window manager it's made by a group of people
called suckles don't don't look them up because they're not very nice people but oh yeah they do
they do make some really good products and the whole idea behind suckles and it's group of tools is
they are supposed to be as lightweight as minimal as possible I'm just going to say here a
quickly no tile window manager is a that's for um we've had something installed before but I'm going
to say for old school people they use it as a choice yeah yeah and I've got DWM set up so that
I can use it titled or I can make windows float freely if I want to it's useful to have floating
windows sometimes and it's useful to have stacked and tile windows sometimes it just depends
of what I'm doing at the time but the problem so DWM I use on this computer because I want to
get as much out of the thing pad as I can but I wouldn't recommend it to most people because
configuring it is a nightmare and you have to actually go in and edit like see header files to
make it work a certain way to add new shortcuts and stuff it doesn't have all of the nice stuff
like a simple config file you have to basically change the source code and recompile it to to make
it do something new because that's what suckless is all about they're like you should learn how
to do this stuff like I say they're not very nice people from a philosophical point of view I
don't really agree with them I'd say they're not very nice people like that I'm sure some
of them are very nice but they're sort of out-outwards sort of projection is that they are
very hostile towards anyone that they consider to be a casual which I think is pretty much anyone
who hasn't written their own you know compiler but yeah it's it's a very good lightweight
so this system so this machine runs arch Linux with DWM and idle idling where it's not running
anything it idles at about 170 megabytes of RAM usage so it's very close to you know it's as close
to nothing as I can get it beautiful which is really what I wanted it for and why I've set it up this way
on a modern machine I don't set it up with DWM I just installed knowing because I like having
all the modern conveniences sure this one I had to do all sorts of stuff with you know yeah I have to
use like WPA subpocom which I thought I'd left behind years ago I have you you know this one runs
X or because there is no wayland equivalent for DWM yet so you don't get all the nice modern
conveniences but you do get an extremely lightweight system and if you know a little bit of
sea you can configure it any which way you like which is cool I guess if you thought about doing
a show further at that you thought about no sorry so I was going to say yeah I'll run
X sort of well there let me use you cut the old over 50 year bug somewhere I can't have joking
but I don't know did it make wayland for the parent me to make it low better whether you're
more really it's largely because X is such a massive protocol at this point and it's so loaded with
security issues and it was like we need something simpler more modern and with a spec that isn't
wildly growing out of control and that's where we go awayland from and pipe fire is kind of
complement to that because it does exactly the same thing to to sort of audio right I can buy
you I have my favorite cross for me yeah I put up a preview control is a is a wonderful tool
but it also causes massive headaches if we can get something that can simplify even more than that
they'll be pretty good for you yeah yeah you I use it as well but the only thing is that I
didn't break it breaking the laptop with that I did a wow quite but that speaks my volume up
past the last 10% yeah because I've done a lot of devices no problem that new YouTube video
sound will not get nothing like crackle crackle pop and I broke my sound on a laptop and it was like
really a tunnel sound but so the you could see in the in the mumble in the mumble here that
there's one just called honky McGoo and that is doing the audio stream so I used that to do
most regular podcasting and I had a mic set up for it I got a nice new mic logitech wireless
mic for Christmas I plugged that thing in and beforehand I had my podcast but working and
everything was working just fine and I tried out the new headphones and then it all broke
honky McGoo during the audio stream that we got because that's me hello so I'm on right now
so because of the way this everything went with trying to play with give you control
anything that's going on inside of mumble gets broadcasted out through but
and then it'll rise yeah yeah yeah I was on the ice but my head set hooked up to
that laptop you could hear me inside of everybody would be able to hear me inside of mumble
but it won't cool out through ice cast just that headset so that's why I'm on another laptop
that I have that I have Pocky able to talk to other people and it'll still go out through
ice cast that's the fun of P of you control I spent about 20 minutes and no matter
apparently went to nope he's still in the room at least he's awake he helped me out because I sat
there and fought with the P of you control just trying to get something to work right and this is
what I found that came up with was I'll just log in when talk on a different laptop and then
I'm just gonna leave this thing alone because it's broadcasting and hopefully next Friday when I
do the lug cast I don't screw it it's not screwed up and it does the recording just fine for lug cast
that's the confidence
level back up copy don't worry yeah well hopefully maybe Daniel recorded back up copy
and he tries to record the jixie again yeah are you doing that one jixie hi
no what we do a so Danny mimics who is on the links like cast he set up a jixie server
and we like to do the jixie server during the show that way we can all kind of see each other
while we're trying to see each other yeah it's just fun to do so we he started recording it
and then he set up a youtube panel so he kind of sets he takes the audio he doesn't
audio recording the textures are to be the video because we shut off audio on jixie because it
messes up with doing mumble and having audio on the jixie so he attaches the mumble audio onto the
jixie and then he uploads it to youtube so that's that that's the thing where he isn't it
so he's had to me I was saying how many years of college I didn't see people like none
and I was just audio but christinal clock cast is just audio but then you can sometimes
do videos as well once that we we are not video but you know we're we are definitely not
primarily video the video is just kind of like a fun backup thing because occasionally you know
Joel will be free to take something live during the show and he'll just kind of show it to us
in the middle of it and then it kind of accidentally breaks the whole the whole you know
audio side of things because they have no idea what we're looking at so it's kind of maybe
we can kind of go well you know if you want to see what we were uh we were looking at you can
refer to the video far whatever my most recent project is or whatever I've been 3D printing lately
or watching out in the corner during half the podcast and we can see he's going to think
it's bad maybe as well oh no I got nothing I'm trying to I'm actually doing the
trying to shave daily now used to be like every four days or something if that and trying to
I got the electric razor going I'm trying to get nice and clean shaving other time now
but the thing is I got really lazy when I was wearing a mask all the time so I'm like there we go
I'm not I'm not never leaving the house oh my god my dude got ladies for him press
I don't well you have to impress your wife every now and again
every that's why I shave every never and then but my wife likes the beard that's it there you go
oh I keep it that matter you awake that mine was here a lot earlier and
but he's been I've let me spin on since we started in the morning so and maybe
blew well before that because he was over in the the Lugcast channel he kind of just hangs in there going
so well at least which over would be starting this at 5 a.m. EST the joke did you get any sleep
I had a couple of that's good I might go take a nap yeah yeah and then you can do the after
it now yeah I got to drive my mother it's at the airport tomorrow so I'm not sure how much
I don't have to I don't have to drive her until about like re-clock in the afternoon so
I would be out here for a little while the night but I don't want to be like I usually
wind up hanging out with the wife until about like midnight or like a little bit of a
form of night and then coming down here and then I'm down here until about like three
ish I'm getting up and five depending on whether or not I'm like super tired later I might just
have a nice tall glass of whiskey and pass out there you go
I'm always here I don't do podcasting so I don't know I don't do shadows you just do
podcasting every Friday evening every other Friday evening every first and third Friday
other month you should do podcasting there yeah I don't really bother with podcasting
more I mean I've been on this I've been on this for a little bit but that was it actually
saying that last week I listen to the very last bit of this from last year because I was on it yeah
oh yeah remember that chat man yeah if you if you'd rather a podcast on Sundays you can
join the mincast we're looking for more hosts not I'm on the I'm on the
bunch of all whacky I got and that might not I put sorry in on here
I think it's been changed into a bunch of basically it doesn't suit you versions it
does not matter I mean yeah I run mitt but most everybody else on on the show runs
whatever makes them happy at the time moss which is like every other day
for some times or three times in a day some stage I'll do this my intro that people get
on about and I don't know that for you thing take out something like I've been running
mint for almost 12 years now well then you should definitely come and be a host on the
midcast now midcast went to structured go on the link though the lugcast we just basically
show up with a microphone and you're good start talking back perfect but don't
throw that to the way when I've been using the only since 95 so there you go with
three gels and join all three of my podcasts I've been listening to you
yeah well the whole thing is yes it's called the midcast yes we discuss anything that's
coming up with Linux Mint itself but most of our conversations are Linux
agnostic I mean any Linux we talk about it if things are coming up in arch if
there's an application that we like if there's a workflow that we like whatever we want to
talk about we just spent like four shows discussing the history of Linux and different
distros yeah mint got mentioned but there were much longer conversations about
Debian Ubuntu arch and all the different flavors of arch so yeah mint is an important part
of midcast but anything Linux related is more than what I've got a question yes
this is bill for mint cast by the way um somebody mentioned that mint cast was a bit too
structured and I'm genuinely well yeah I'm genuinely curious to get people's input on that because
I don't feel like that I don't know that was me and that was a joke well I mean I have heard
that though and you heard that from people that can't structure themselves we keep a structure
because we need a structure in order to be able to actually make our shows us getting on there
and just start talking we might as well all quit and just join the look at well I mean we
had a couple of guests on the show since I've been a part of the show and later on after the show
I've asked them what they thought of the experience and they kind of the well and overwhelmingly
common responses that it's it's a bit brutal in terms of you know the overall time and then also
the strict adherence to the way but while we basically have a list of things to say and the
minute you go off that list people get a little uncomfortable yeah well okay but it's it is
something that I've been kind of curious about is it something we should look at you know the notes
are there to yes help keep us on track but if we go off on a side conversation that's always
been perfectly acceptable and then you know once that side conversation is done you just bring
it back to the notes so you can keep hitting your talking points that's all those are is talking points
right I was kicking you I will drive to your house right now and kick you I did
I had to come on in here so I had to come on in here so I'm sorry I'm sorry I want to ask a question right
right if I just admit to ask all the luck pass what's the point really is it passed
time is it hobby am I going to get a nice job doing that since they were saying honestly
job no what look the the Linux lunchcast was was initially started as kind of a let's talk about
our problems yeah let's talk about our projects and then it just kind of diverged into a let's
talk about stuff that's going on around honestly the Linux lunchcast is is a really a lot more
for the participants than it is necessarily for the list it is a lot it is it is a lot more for
those people to for those who to show up and it is necessarily for those who listen but I
I am a fun time just being there you know I can't I listen to it because I didn't really go
like to go back and listen to some of the fun that we've had doing it now it's for the
kick it was a movie every week we were we were this week this was the past movie we were
before I am not just we just because we all sit around and have the time talking about movies
and TV before we start talking about all the the Linux stuff that we found during the the
times between you know in terms of this more general conversation about things and then we
have people who come on and then we've had a couple of new people who are people come on and they
have things that projects that they're working on and you know we sit around and talk about
it's a great place for people to get started with podcasting if they're afraid to get started
with podcasting jump on the Linux logcast and we will help you with your audio setup we will just
BS and get you over that first hurdle of getting your first show out there and feeling good about it
or just come right on to mintcast like I did and then spend the next three days like not being
able to hold down solid food that's how I did it just get away but the way I explained it to
pay people to look cast as if is if a mad magazine Mac hacker news and then had a
retarded baby yeah there are some shows where it's pretty light topic and then there are some
shows where it's completely like desktop focus but then there are also shows where it is definitely
you know business focus or or learning something very in depth man people used to get mad at me
because I would just really talk about command line stuff and it's like how can you talk about
command on a friggin audio podcast and it's like well you know if it's that much of a problem
for you to keep track but you can always go check the show notes which I don't understand either
because if we if the look cast ever goes you know starts talking a lot about command line stuff that's
perfectly fine you know if you know that's part of Linux right I think that's why why is why is
talking about command line tools more more sort of alien to an audio podcast and talking about
graphical tools I don't know because well a lot of it sometimes it's it's hard to read out all
of the command it's a specific command unless unless you so there's there's a way to do it right
where if you can like if you're if you're doing something where my my favorite command for most
things is DD so if you can sit there and explain that you're going to go DD and then you're going to go
IF which is the in file and then you do OF which is the outfile so your in file is there but say
your ISO and then you can say that you know outfile okay I see we're going to send it which is you
say you can explain it as slash dev slash SDA or whatever it is if you can explain that through
audio so how people can almost visualize what your talk is I mean explain it the thing but if you
just start reading out there's a difference gap in story way down on okay that's true too
no you're you're talking about DD and DD command send it you know a little bit long
but then there's YouTube DL commands which are like combined with FF MPEG commands and
we'll take up like three four lines and trying to explain all of that just isn't going to work
and but I wouldn't try that you know in an audio podcast anyway I would start out by
explaining the highlights of that particular command and then say specifically check the show notes
if you want to see exactly what I used it's going to be different for you you're going to be using
a different path you're going to be getting a different file whatever but this is the general idea
and people would complain about you know well you have you have people come and say about
it's enough that I had there I still don't understand how people can complain about a podcast being
too long have a pause button right they can stop button and they can resume it later on
right right what is explained to me what how a podcast can be most long
off's commutes are 45 no I agree with you completely because I listen to everything is
free actually way and you know pause and play I do understand how that works I use it all the time
especially because I listen to you know eight sixteen twenty-hour audio books right but
the way it was explained to me was most people's commute from home to work is approximately
forty-five minutes that's the amount of time that they have to listen so so they want one
that will fit into that commute so after they get out of their car from the commute they're
going to forget everything they just they just heard you know I don't know okay so I don't know
the second they get back on their cars like what's going on you know flight tangent
flight tangent here but I I actually now have an absolute yearning to go and listen to somebody
read the ddman page at three times speed okay what I need so there's a guy that has gone through
the man page what was his name uh my two I was caught too I was on the hard order when I was
hey so I would pay free for the micro machines that's a public review next manual to me
well no he is a good new world order he did he has he did a like whole
year of yes in depth of like each five each program the each application yes it is
it is somewhere hit the new world order is somewhere between maddening and fantastic just the
amount of in depth that he did that man goes into it is just awesome it's where he did
frightening at the same time because he started doing that after you know I talked about people
complaining about me talking about command light stuff and then he just goes into this like
plan 10 times more in depth on the command line than I was talking about just not pounding it
good new world order has always been that way like he's all of his stuff has just has always
been very very very in depth and a lot of it is very very very very in depth command line type stuff
that's if you want completely in depth command line stuff that's not that he's the way to go man
it is the educational counterpart to the love cast yeah where you can actually learn something
you got to play steps in the in the Joe steps there you have tilts that talks about
Joel's house all the time you have one cast where we talk about we talk about you know
tech stuff but we also talk a lot about movies and television and all sorts of
tendons and you talk a lot of there's a lot of crude jokes on there especially what's Danny starts talking
oh what's it yeah that's luck but let's then you have like make cast which is
a little bit more it's it's more structured you know they're trying to get everything into their timing
and whatnot we will talk about our personal projects and we will talk about our in depth topic
and they have like a new world order which is very in depth mostly like command line stuff
and is if that's what you can if like I couldn't I couldn't follow that it's just I that's
that's above my knowledge of things I could probably get you know what I could probably
follow some of it a bit more now than I could what I initially started listening to
a new world order but we love doing interviews with whoever we can find that's doing
whatever in the industry but interviews always fun that's why like it wouldn't do people
come on because the lead cast because I I almost I try to almost do like interview style I just
try to you know try to ease some stuff out of them like I want to just waste that in the industry
so here's a question in that case actually works with an expert resource or he used the hobbyist
well I work with Linux but you know anybody that does any kind of Linux administration works with Linux
how work with Windows unfortunately I work a lot with Windows too but I work with everything
with it yeah every at all everything is learning actually the project I work on at the moment
is is tangentially related to the new hotness because like everyone is talking about mastered on
now and I'm a maintainer of a different sort of federated project so we're just on satin the corner
oh you maintain fun quail yeah we love fun quail on the shirt we all have a couple of us
have our own servers yeah that's a couple you two make a great couple we do
mm-hmm that's cool who is this talking yeah it's me I'm not I'm not I'm a computer so I can't see I know
you're filming I go by I go by star oh hey cool are you ready to do that
you have a film matrix for yes yes oh okay I'm saying one of the admins in the
race um no I think I'm in there is just my my real name just cure on okay um I used to be
sparroth and then I changed it in one of my clients and it updates it in every single room
and whatever if you see any blog posts by fun quail it's usually signed off by sparroth because
I'm usually the one writing that stuff cool well we have a couple of shows we're gladly
invited you on for interviews okay I've been invited for a few interviews today now I'm on
Joe's yes you have and the other kind of it's going to be fact you've been been
interviewed without knowing you've been interviewed if you've been well yeah talk talk to
Bill and get things set up and he'll get you set up for an interview with a mint cast
Bill still odd you don't even mention the mug test I see where your priorities oh I was
going to let you handle that I know you were going to open your mouth anytime well nice
I hear me sooner than every first and third Friday of a month every time you want to show up
is cool we will we will interview you we will just sit there and chat with you you can just hang
out talk talk about what we're talking about yeah basically watch some stupid TV shows before
you're joined so yeah talk about movies I don't know does anyone doesn't even hear what
retro strange it's an own cast server that just shows like public domain movies and
infomercials and TV shows on the list of constant like 24-7 Luke it's brilliant that sounds like
Georgian I was playing this is the best we go in there and just watch it there Japanese movie
and make we loot comments and you know we're using anyone talking though do anybody watch this
year's Mrs. Brown's voice Christmas special and all the new year special should be coming out
here in a few hours but what he knows what you're talking about
I'm just trying to like pretend in the background yeah I'm nodding yeah
I'm scared I was shooting show reference yeah I'm so uh is Mrs. Brown's voice
obscure I don't know it's obscure and you ask I'm not in the UK it's not so cool it's definitely a new
guy that's not really anywhere here I've just been getting into trouble oh is this
liver eaten Johnson yeah I went to the river and dipped out another SSD for my new computer
nice as your new year going so far or your pre-new year I guess New Year's Eve going pretty good
we're uh as soon as we forgot to use the show notes everything improved immensely
we're left off to thank you for some of the do again
no we're just not using the show notes but we're just building them as the show goes on
right we're doing your show notes oh I don't know anything about those yeah
I don't know if I'm getting a long time ago and no one has touched it since I didn't know
is there a link to it yeah on the HBR page oh I'll add stuff I forgot there was even
New Year's Eve show note I think next year we're gonna have to move away from
a mumble the what uh just the problem is that gonna be a next year with some of the stuff going
on the well they're not being new curve or something you know there is well still podcast as
long as I'm not dead then we might not have to worry about it at all so don't don't borrow trouble
especially trouble that far ahead didn't even after he said he'll still podcast that's right
oh I have a back cue I'll just put myself on repeat there you go just bear in me with my microphone
yeah oh my cell phone it's that's yeah there's probably at least 150 headsets in this room
at least what is in Thailand right now he might jump on he was on this morning he was on earlier
oh yeah yeah with hell nice while they were driving down the road they're very pretty
cut your side they got dark quick to come on guys elk could make newer look good
oh I'm sorry I just thought what's the main netmine is back netmine is all that means
it's five to the next hour yeah you know I'm getting out yeah we we know what the next hour is
well be Finland and yeah Finland and um Ukraine I've actually had leave yeah Ukraine and um
well if they stay on you maybe yeah we've got a few other parts of your work yeah you're
praying for me also next year we'll put a Eastern standard time next to the Zulu time
we got to do the translation never but it's possible we can use North Indian time in calendars
right right why can't we have a lot of great time in calendar and all that and just
that's why it's in UTC actually oh yeah Ukraine next as well you got you guys have
inspired me not to rip apart my new computer so that I can install but the SSD in
until the new SSD come oh glad we could help inspired inspired did that you inspired somebody
did they joke if it was is that a rare thing or one I will go from two hundred and forty
kids about two these like I inspire people to tell me to fuck off all the time
well you know made sure it hasn't grown up however I know it's like no you always
record me saying something dumb dad oh by the way if you want to use the kids
server you're welcome to do so what did early on it already did okay
me that minor are the one people there right now don't jump back on in a minute then yeah well
I don't have a close I don't worry I don't actually like that one worse I don't activate my
family I found the next one I don't want to cross all you guys replacing your monitors so
I don't activate my camera like I paid for any of these monitors it's like for the
carbon monster looks in the mirror it's just shadows and story I found the list of
countries on what you PJ that are new TCE for people so yeah these are one of the new
years is happening now yeah I think I know Finland Ukraine yeah to be
sort of Africa even apparently you get Egypt that's out I guess Libya Malawi
Nambia to Dan San Bias and Valblade I think that's right a standard time year round
um Latvia Liffiania probably Bulgaria sounds right
do that tonight we should know where we are in the show no
uh the week every talk about anything it's in the show no
you can play plus one is due and we're looking to see
please Turkey as well another few I'm gonna say happy new year Ukraine Finland and those are
a few countries not same times in as well happy new year to you
now since you uh what do we want to think well do you know I've you know about what we're
first of all uh the uh decentralized book review platform also also the next hour is
we have learned what a new year thing because it's gonna be most of you all
with your section of Brexit band and your canary islands are not included
Germany, Sweden, France, Spain yeah
anybody hear what I say yes I heard something about books and I love the sporef right here
there oh his mic is off sporef except the way he said something about getting naked with
jello or something that's a good time oh well somebody is going to party in early
most of us are um habit readers I don't know if well I live funny all of mine but
well book bookworm is like good reads except it's federated and decentralized so you
you just like master done but for book reviews talking about books and I was asking sporef
since he works on funquat which is kind of like that but for music if he's what what I'm looking
for is something for movie reviews that you can review movies and interact with people
like letter yeah but it's not it's not federated I understand but it's still good
and I pay twenty dollars a year for it it's exactly what I'm looking for is a federated
open source decentralized version of letterbox because I like it sounds like a project we
talk about well see that link oh yes actually thought about forking bookworm you get it no
come on that yes but yeah that that's exactly what I would like to have is that as a
as an open source letterbox so I live letterbox too but I quit I quit post it on there
I love posting and I make lists and everything once I drink the cool lady I got off letterbox
it's my new favorite first I'm posting on Facebook in I don't know for years I mean I post pictures
give me a federated letterbox yeah exactly what I'm doing is for if
I want to work with back so yeah that's how long does that exist a federated letterbox
letterbox which is grab that box I wait there's one just round there on the street yeah
because I had talked I talked about bookworm that what they did for books
for you know compared to good reads if there was something similar for letterbox that would be
awesome yeah I mean in theory there's nothing stopping it you just back home to TMDB as your
your sort of data source and then just have a person's reviews and diary as a federated channel
we'll see what would be the easiest way was just to be the fork bookworm and change the
interface and all that stuff we're not that easy but rather than done from scratch yeah in theory
but like at the end of the day these things are all relatively similar in the sense that if you
forked bookworm you would still have to change the entire database structure API structure
you would have to change the data sources that you use because that backs on to the open library
and stuff like this in this case you'd be backing on to TMDB probably and you'd want to
represent different data which means you would need to format your activity streams
calls differently because that's kind of how federation works so you would you would have to
you would end up building so much of it again that you would end you might as well just build it
to scratch because that would also give you more freedom to design it how you want to design it
and stuff like that and also I don't know what stack bookworm uses but in any other way to stack
you don't like you know I mean funquel is written in a Django rest framework and I personally
if I were starting a project from scratch I probably wouldn't use that
not that there's anything wrong with it it's fine but like I just personally would rather have
something much lighter it's actually for something as simple as a letter boxed clone
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